Jun 30, 2022
RV parks are booming, but there's still plenty of opportunity. Here to talk about how we can take advantage of the space before institutional investors come in is Jeremy Hans.
Jeremy is the co-founder of Climb Capital and has been an active multifamily real estate investor since 2010. He believes that RV parks are a great investment because of the high returns and low risk and discusses their opportunistic approach in finding deals. Jeremy is also passionate about what he does and shares inspiring insights of choosing a lifestyle he wants to live.
[00:01 - 03:29] Building a Lifestyle You Want
- From reservist to real estate investor
- How Jeremy is finding work-life balance
[03:30 - 19:38] Pivoting to RV Parks
- The opportunities in the RV parks industry
- What a deal looks like in the RV resort space
- The advantage of being the frontrunner in a lesser-explored asset class
- Investments that Jeremy and his team are staying away from
- The long-term potential in destination RV parks
- Adding amenities and testing the market
- Launching an RV park investment fund
[19:39 - 21:03] Closing Segment
- Reach out to Jeremy!
- Links Below
- Final Words
Tweetable Quotes
“You could give me multiple millions of dollars in my bank account tomorrow, I wouldn't change what I'm doing. I've chosen the lifestyle that I want to live.” - Jeremy Hans
“If I had better criteria, there'd probably be a lot of more people in this space because there'd be a lot more data, but right now there's not. So I'm making my own and we're making it work.” - Jeremy Hans
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Connect with Jeremy at the Climb Capital website. Email him at jeremy@climbcapital.com and follow him on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok!
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
[00:00:00] Jeremy Hans: I think it's more of an issue of where does it kind of fit in the local kind of economy in both size, location, and distance to things that people want to be at. So if you're an RV'er, if you ever RV'ed, you don't necessarily need to be right next to where you're trying to go, but you want to be close and close is relative. It might be an hour. It might be 30 minutes depending what you're looking at. And so, Hey, is there a draw? Is there a reason somebody want to be there? It's it near a major highway? Does it have a water feature and is it a place that I or my family would ever want to visit are kind of the basic criteria that we look at. And if I had better criteria, there'd probably be a lot of more people in this space because there'd be a lot more data, but right now there's not. So I'm making my own and we're making it work.
[00:00:46] Sam Wilson: Jeremy Hans is the former Navy helicopter pilot who began investing in multifamily and commercial real estate while on active duty. He skipped residential real estate almost entirely and recently he has pivoted from multifamily syndications to RV parks, amongst other things. Jeremy, welcome to the show.
[00:01:03] Jeremy Hans: Sam. Thanks for having me glad to be here.
[00:01:05] Sam Wilson: Hey man, pleasure's mine. Three questions I ask every guest who comes in the show: in 90 seconds or less, where did you start? Where are you now? And how did you get there?
[00:01:11] Jeremy Hans: Sure. So, Jeremy Hans started as a middle class, white kid from the suburbs of America, as white bread as they come, right? So, I did all the right things, went to school, and learn nothing, but, you know, just keep taking the next step to get a job, join the Navy ' cause I thought that was the next step in my life to get, get me started. That was great, had a great time, but realized pretty quick, the harder you work in the Navy, the more work you get, and you don't get paid a dollar more.
[00:01:30] Jeremy Hans: So, started planning my exit pretty early on. First thing I ever bought was a fourplex in San Diego as a 22 year old kid. House hacked and BRRRR before those were words and then got moved, not by my own choice to Pensacola, Florida and realized I got to do something else, right? There's no fourplexes to buy here.
[00:01:44] Jeremy Hans: And so jumped into commercial real estate on a small scale, met a partner, trying to buy the same mobile home park. And then together we kind of get, got a bunch of education, started just doing deals, started syndicating on a small scale, and slowly kind of grown that to Climb Capital. So today we're a team about 10, primarily focused on syndicating RV parks and then doing some private equity stuff on the side as we continue to sell and operate a few of our apartment and mobile home park deals still.
[00:02:07] Sam Wilson: Wow, man. That's a lot of moving pieces. Now you are, you're still active military? You're reservist? What's your status?
[00:02:14] Jeremy Hans: So I I'm a reservist, so I left active duty in 2017, did a couple more years on active orders as a reservist, but now I'm just a part-time 60 day a year flying helicopter pilot in the Navy reserves.
[00:02:26] Sam Wilson: Oh, man. That's, that's really cool. You, you have a lot of things in the air. What's something or a lot of moving pieces, like balls in the air was the phrase I was looking for, a lot of balls in the air, a lot of moving pieces. How do you organize all of it?
[00:02:38] Jeremy Hans: You know, I, I think the thing that I tell people all the time, right, I also got four kids, got an airplane, do a lot of stuff at church, right? I keep it busy, right? You could give me multiple millions of dollars in my bank account tomorrow. I wouldn't change what I'm doing, right? So I've chosen the lifestyle that I want to live. I want to run a company. I want to be able to do these things. I know that's going to mean a lot of work right now. I'm okay with that. I know that's going to be a lot of long days with little kids. I'm okay with that. And it's just putting kind of, you know, lifestyle priority in check. And maybe that means I don't hang out and watch as much Netflix as I'd like. But I go, I'm done. So, I think that's my answer.
[00:03:05] Sam Wilson: Netflix isn't that much fun anyway. Let's, let's all be honest.
[00:03:09] Jeremy Hans: Listen, when you don't watch it for a month or two and you go back, like, there's nothing you want to watch. Like, it's amazing how, you know, it becomes an addiction that you don't even realize when you stop, you know, doing some of that stuff that...
[00:03:19] Sam Wilson: Oh, for sure. For sure. and again, you're building a lifestyle that you want. And I think a lot of people at times people use Netflix as an excuse to get away from the lifestyle they built. So, that's, that's awesome, man. Good for you. Tell me, when did you guys switch from multifamily to now syndicating RV parks?
[00:03:35] Jeremy Hans: So we made a pivot, really at the end of 2021. We bought our first RV park beginning of 2020, kind of, we're not really planning to do it, just kind of a deal fell on our lap. And then a second one, the same. And then we looked up in the middle of 2021 and we said, Hey, COVID eviction were terrible.
[00:03:48] Jeremy Hans: These deals for class C multifamily are getting really thin. The people are not getting any better, locations aren't getting any better, but these RV parks. They're making a ton of money. The people are happy to be here. They're growing by leaps and bounds. There's no information. Let's jump and do something a little bit different.
[00:04:01] Jeremy Hans: So, we kind of had a hard conversation, lot teeth sucking and said, okay, let's do it. So, we said, let's sell off everything else. And let's put our full focus on this kind of macro trend right now. And we'll ride this until the wave crashes, I guess.
[00:04:13] Sam Wilson: Well, hopefully the wave doesn't crash, but tell me, tell me what I guess what were the things that turned, you know, the deal fell in your lap, which I think is funny part of the story, like for most of us where all sudden it's like, oh yeah. And then there it was, and then I just did it, but it, there had to be enough compelling information that came your way as you guys dissected this first deal that said, man, this is where we need to go long.
[00:04:34] Jeremy Hans: Right. So, you know, we kind of stair stepped it. Our first deal was an RV park, in the RV park space, wasn't an RV park, but it really looked, operated more like a, a mobile home park. And so we had to learn some of the complexities of the RVs specifically, but the actual model was much more mobile home park esque was something we understood and done for years. And in that process, we brought on our own in house management from day one.
[00:04:53] Jeremy Hans: And so we had a little bit more flexibility. So then when we bought our second RV park, that was actually a traditional kind of resort style, you know, destination RV park. We kind of already had built half of the team necessary to run that thing. And so what has been hard for a lot of other people to switch to, which is you can't just call up somebody off of the internet to go run your RV park.
[00:05:10] Jeremy Hans: We had already built basically half the system to be able to do that. And so, that second RV park is when we really realized if we kind of dig into this a little bit deeper, there's a lot of opportunity. And so that's when we really started, hey, to expand, you know, basically provide the same CapEx kind of turnaround that we did into a classy multifamily. Similar idea, right, into a hospitality product and just kinda watch that continue to succeed. And then macro, I mean, people want to do, you know, live on the road, remote work, ubiquitous internet's everywhere so people feel like they can do it now. People want to take, you know, midlife retirements, traveling with their kids for a year.
[00:05:39] Jeremy Hans: I mean, van life, you name it. There's people that want to be on the road. COVID has changed, I think, a lot of people's outlooks on what travel looks like and what they want to be doing. And so, I think we're really meeting a demand that right now has not really been kind of eaten up by the institutional investors yet.
[00:05:52] Sam Wilson: Right. No it hasn't. Why do you think that is?
[00:05:54] Jeremy Hans: It's hard, right? It's hard because nobody has the management system in place to be able, in a box to go buy an RV park tomorrow, right? They're all different. They're businesses that require a lot more work. Totally could be in time as that people kind of build out these systems a little bit better, but until your hotel type spaces moves into the RV park space, I think there's going to be a lot of opportunity to kind of play that delta cap rates, which you still buy RV parks a lot better than you can buy mobile home park and make a lot more money.
[00:06:20] Sam Wilson: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What's your long term plan with it? I mean, 'cause these are, these are known, like you said, for producing an excellent income stream. Is your idea to hold onto 'em in perpetuity? You going to package 'em all up and sell 'em once the institutions start coming in? What what's your long term play?
[00:06:37] Jeremy Hans: I see myself as a deal junkie, right? And so at the end of the day, when somebody wants to pay me, what I would assume is too much money for them in the future, we'll likely package them together and try to sell them off to institutional investors.
[00:06:47] Jeremy Hans: But I think the only place you can, the only way you can get to that is when you have years of experience, really solid system and some really good product. And so our process right now is to continue over the next two to three years to really try to buy as much as we can, update, systemize, make sure things are running really at peak efficiency, continue to scale and then be at a position to kind of see, hey, we want to hold these long term and we want to be the guys or, hey, we want to sell these off and go find our next big adventure. But I'm an adventure guy, so I can't claim that in 10 years or 20 years I'll necessarily be the RV park guy I am today.
[00:07:15] Sam Wilson: Right. Understood. Understood. What does a deal look like in the RV resort space right now for you?
[00:07:23] Jeremy Hans: For us, it's trying to provide an opportunity for us to provide value, right? So we want to create value. Typically that looks like some kind of expansion, typically some kind of ability to raise rents to a more of a market standard. That market is really fungible. It's hard to kind of tell where it's at, but trying to, you know, understand where that is and can we push it, providing other ancillary services that we can also get paid for. And I think the big one for us is just marketing and, and putting together business systems and processes. We're buying RV parks from people that don't have online booking, right? We're buying RV parks from guys who, you know, they've got the same lady that's running it for 20 or 30 years and she's doing a great job for what she knows, but she doesn't know how to use online, digital marketing, right? And so they're just leaving money on the table, 'cause they're not running like a business. And so if I could run a business where somebody else has had a hobby, I typically can find a way to make some money on that.
[00:08:08] Sam Wilson: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Is there, you know, a geographic focus for you guys? Is there somewhere you say, hey, this is better than that? What is that?
[00:08:18] Jeremy Hans: Yeah, so I think that's a funny question. Our company's name is Climb Capital, right, which is supposed to be like climb out capital, the idea of like flying, taking off, right? Climb out also kind proceeds, maybe climbing out of like a ditch. And so we just went with climb.
[00:08:29] Jeremy Hans: But the reason we, we named that, right, both military aviators, my partner and I that founded it. We wanted to create a business that built a lifestyle that we wanted to have. So one, right, we both liked to RV. I met my wife, actually, growing up with my parents, you know, RVing, going on camping trips, but we wanted be able to buy an airplane.
[00:08:44] Jeremy Hans: So we bought an airplane and we want to be able to have a reason to fly it. So we want to buy stuff in the Southeast. We're based out of Pensacola, Florida. We want to buy stuff far enough away that it convinces our wives that we need to keep this airplane. So really anything from Texas to the Carolinas and any place where I can go get a reason to fly away, a place. I want to be myself, right? So, tired of dealing with class C places, class C people, class C problems. I want to go buy vacation properties and vacation areas with vacation people and enjoy my life while I make a little bit of money.
[00:09:10] Sam Wilson: So that's an interesting point and maybe a differentiator that you put on there was vacation properties in vacation places that you want a vacation. Is there a difference between the RV resorts you were looking at versus maybe something in a fly overstate?
[00:09:24] Jeremy Hans: There's absolutely opportunities for destination RV parks in flyover states. You know, we're really heavy in places like Alabama. Some people don't think Alabama's like a place that you want to be, but we're doing great there.
[00:09:35] Jeremy Hans: I think it's more of an issue of where does it kind of fit in the local kind of economy in both size location and distance to things that people want to be at. So if you're an RV'er or if you ever RV'd, you don't necessarily need to be right next to where you're trying to go, but you want to be close and close is relative.
[00:09:49] Jeremy Hans: It might be an hour. It might be 30 minutes depending what you're looking. And so, hey, is there a draw? Is there a reason somebody want to be there? It's it near major highway? Does it have a water feature? And is it a place that I or my family would, would ever want to visit, are kind of the basic criteria that we look at.
[00:10:02] Jeremy Hans: And if I had better criteria, there'd probably be a lot of more people in this space because there'd be a lot more data, but right now there's not. So I'm making my own and we're making it work.
[00:10:09] Sam Wilson: That's it? That's it. And I think that's where the opportunity lies and that's, that's something that you know, that a lot of people are, it's overlooked because there's just, there is no data. There's not data. There's not good management. There's not, it's a, it's a very fragmented, I think, industry, which, you know, for those who are willing to, you know, be the front runners into it and pioneer the professionalization, if that's even a word, kind of just made it up, of the space, you know, as you, as you bring more, more of a institutional approach to owning and operating.
[00:10:39] Jeremy Hans: I mean, this is, yeah, this is to us this is not an unknown, right? This is the same thing that happened in apartments 10 or 15 years ago, right. Happened to mobile home park seven or eight years ago, happened to sell storage, happened to short term rentals, happened to residential real estate. We're just providing the same opportunity, right, with a new asset class. And knowing that we have really kind of a short time, we feel like, before it is going to be institutionalized and that advantage kind of goes away and we'll have to go find the next asset, and the next thing to go, kind of find our niche in the world.
[00:11:04] Sam Wilson: What is a, a deal that you would look at? And you'd say absolutely not. That is just a bad RV resort or park to buy.
[00:11:12] Jeremy Hans: So for us, I think the biggest one is size. We want to be able to have a full-time property manager on site, and we don't hire property managers. We hire people that want to run businesses and we, you know, teach them how to be a property manager and how to run it.
[00:11:23] Jeremy Hans: And then we let them have a whole, much more control than anybody's ever given that person, or probably use most of their employees, right? We find a lot of opportunity by having that super high trust. And so if we can't have a, a site that will ever make enough money to support that person and then still have any kind of profit on top of it, it's probably just not going to be for us.
[00:11:39] Jeremy Hans: And then the second one is if it's really hard to get to and there's no reason to be there. I don't care if a lot of people have been there in the past. There may not be that anybody in their future, 'cause there's no reason to be there. So, for us, a lot of times I'd be like, you know, man camps, places that are, you know, work, you know, way out in the west, Texas or up in North Dakota, not a bad place.
[00:11:56] Jeremy Hans: People make a lot of money on it. That's just not our business model. And so we try to stay away from places we don't think is a long term kind of defensible vacation investment if that makes sense.
[00:12:03] Sam Wilson: Right. Right. Tell me about the long term component you said earlier that these functions to an, to a certain extent, sort of like a mobile home park. What did you mean by that?
[00:12:14] Jeremy Hans: Well, so the first one we bought was 36 space RV park, had two rows, one road down the middle of it, and functionally people live there like they were mobile homes. So, one of the things that we kind of recognize is that we're trying to buy destination RV parks, where people have short term stays and they're, they're paying a higher rate for that shorter term.
[00:12:29] Jeremy Hans: But we also know that based on the lack of affordable housing in this country, that we always have the opportunity, if things would turn and people just decide to not vacation anymore, which by the way, hasn't ever been a thing. But if people stop vacationing, right, we can always take either a portion or the entirety of that park and really turn it back into more or less an RV park mobile home park, which would allow long term renters.
[00:12:48] Jeremy Hans: We might turn down what we provide for amenities or other services. But there's always kind of a baseline. Like, if you have it, somebody will pull in. And so for our long term spots, more than a month at a time, we typically have 10 or 15 people on the wait list for each spot, because there's just not enough places to park these RVs as if they've been printing 'em so fast and there hasn't necessarily been the same building for the actual RV park spaces.
[00:13:09] Sam Wilson: Right, right. Are there, are there code considerations or municipal restriction considerations around converting an RV park to a long term stay RV park?
[00:13:20] Jeremy Hans: I can't speak to everywhere. Generally, no, it typically depends on your zoning, but most of our zoning allows us to have longer term. We choose not to because we can get a higher, you know, return.
[00:13:29] Jeremy Hans: And then generally as a business, we're choosing to not sign leases because just like a hotel, if you don't pay, you got to, we don't want to deal with the evictions. We don't want to deal with the government oversight and we don't want people to feel like that they're intruding on somebody's living space if they're coming to vacation.
[00:13:43] Jeremy Hans: So if you want to pull out your your plants and you're starting to, you know, start guarding in front of your, your trailer, that's probably not going to be a place that somebody else is going to feel comfortable coming for a night or a weekend. And so we have to make that consideration too. And it takes, you know, I don't mind somebody that stays two or three or four months, even a year.
[00:13:59] Jeremy Hans: Traveling nurses, traveling contractors, people that are on the road, working remote. Great. Just living there and just leaving all your trash out front, treating like mobile home park ain't going to work ours. So just kind of a business choice.
[00:14:09] Sam Wilson: Right. And again, this, this goes back to the vacation theme. Like it's, that's a really good point that you don't, you want other people to come in and be like, oh, Hey, I belong here, not, oh, I'm intruding on somebody else's, you know, backyard barbecue. Okay, cool. That is really cool. What about amenities and things like that ?I'm sure every park you look at has different amenities. Are there certain amenities you find that bring value? Certain ones you'd say, man, that's that's, you know, we're getting rid of that on every park we buy, what's that front look like for you?
[00:14:39] Jeremy Hans: I mean, it's really relative based on location and what the park is. For me personally, I, you know, I've got four kids. Like, if I'm going to an RV park, I want some water. Like, I need those kids to go burn some energy, get messy, you know, not sweat all over me all day.
[00:14:51] Jeremy Hans: And so if there's not some kind of water feature, it's probably not a place for me, personally. And so that's probably not going to be a place for us, you know, professionally either. But besides that, there's nothing in the RV park space that I feel like I'm really strongly for or against. Generally if I can find a way to bring that in as part of the business and then not take away.
[00:15:08] Jeremy Hans: You know, either from time or effort for my, my property manager, it's kind of an add on, then I'm always willing to try it. And then I'm always willing to throw it out. If it doesn't make sense, you know, we've tried to do like paddle boats and some, some rentals like that great idea. And then we found massive headaches of dealing with, you know, local municipalities on legalities and insurance.
[00:15:24] Jeremy Hans: And so, Hey, okay, great. It's not going to work. We'll just take it away. It's not going to hurt my feelings. We're still there. But you know, it's just things like that. Just testing the market and being very willing to kind of continue to learn in a space where there's not a lot of information. And then we'll create that information over time and tell people in two or three years exactly how to do it.
[00:15:40] Sam Wilson: Tell me about this classes of RV park, so there are similar classes like there is in multifamily or is, I mean, what's the...
[00:15:49] Jeremy Hans: Well, there's, definitely, yeah, there's definitely kind of the, the, the high highs and the lows lows, the middles, definitely a lot more squishy. I would describe it. When you start talking about high end kind of RV resorts, where, you know, the, the RVs for a lot of these owners of those resorts have to be within 10 years or newer.
[00:16:04] Jeremy Hans: And if they're not, you have to get, you know, special permission, or whatever that's tippy top, right? You're talking people that are spending, sometimes even buying condos RV spots, whole different business model than what I'm looking for, right? So we're definitely kind of more that B class family style park.
[00:16:18] Jeremy Hans: And then when you start thinking about RV parks that look more like rundown mobile home parks, that's also not what I'm looking for. And so I've not seen a classification system that I love. It's kind of like, you know, when you see it you'll know. This is a place. This is a place for me. This is not a place for me.
[00:16:30] Jeremy Hans: And a lot of that comes down to just kind of personal feel like would my family be able to comfortable here? If not, it's probably not for us. And if so, then let's keep digging and see if this is the right deal.
[00:16:39] Sam Wilson: Right, right. No, that's I think that that's absolutely right. I mean, and again, the classification system probably largely doesn't exist because it is so fragmented. It is so mom and pop and it is so nuanced to, you know, to its exact location.
[00:16:53] Jeremy Hans: And some of it listen, like, I don't want to stay at some places that are perfectly fine to stay, but it just doesn't meet my design or style or whatever, right? And so, if it's a place that, you know, really, you know, caters to motorcyclists, that's great.
[00:17:04] Jeremy Hans: I'm a motorcyclist. I love it. But I probably don't want to stay at a park where it's got you super loud bike going off all night, Right? So there's so many kind of variability kind of steps there that it's tough to, to note. And if you've ever been to RV parks, even KOA, right? The KOA is around the country, which is a franchise RV park and campgrounds.
[00:17:19] Jeremy Hans: There's a lot of variability in kind of the classification of how nice they are too, right? So a lot of it comes down to just your local who's running day to day and making those decisions to spend the money.
[00:17:28] Sam Wilson: Love it. Tell me about your fund. You guys are launching an RV park investment fund. Tell us about that.
[00:17:35] Jeremy Hans: So, so the idea here is that a lot of our investors want to get in the RV parks. We want them in the RV parks with us. When you start making a bet on an asset class, right? And you start trying to do that on an individual property perspective, you need a lot of data. So it's really easy to make an investment in the apartment space on a deal by deals, because you can really understand that data's really, really well, really granular.
[00:17:55] Jeremy Hans: What we decided was, Hey, we think it's probably better for us and for our investors if instead of investors buying into each individual deal and it ran a place in Alabama or South Georgia, that they, Hey, let's take a bigger swing of the bat here, have a, have a bigger swath, right. Kind of make a bigger bet on the asset class.
[00:18:10] Jeremy Hans: So that's what we're doing, we're doing a 20 million RV park fund and allow us to move a little bit faster, buy some of these deals with cash right away, and then refinance out to be able to move even better for some of these mom and pop owners who sometimes have very weird requirements for purchase and be able to kind of start moving a little bit faster and a little bit faster spend, a little larger scale than we would've had to go deal to deal.
[00:18:28] Jeremy Hans: And we think for our investor base that they're going to be really happy by being in the asset class and then have some opportunities to get some broader you know, not only depth, but also breadth of what they're investing in.
[00:18:39] Sam Wilson: Well, a 20 million fund, what would be the total assets under management that that fund could potentially absorb?
[00:18:45] Jeremy Hans: We're looking probably 60 to 70 million would kind of be our, our expectation. You know, naturally we have kind of delevered as we move into RV park space. There's not the institutional capital that there is in the mobile home park, in the apartment space. And so we've already kind of naturally delevered just because we can't go lever up to 80, 85% on these deals like we could in the past.
[00:19:03] Jeremy Hans: And so we'll keep a little bit lower leverage, one, because there's some unknowns in the economy, but two, that's just kind the natural kind of place for the space. And we're still making really good returns without having to go kind of unnatural leverage to get there.
[00:19:14] Sam Wilson: Right. Man, and that's, that's absolutely, you know, as, as we've observed that space, that's one of the things we've found too. It's like, we don't, we don't have to go high LTV in order to juice returns. Like we can deleverage take some risk off the table and still hit exceptional returns. Like, that's a win-win.
[00:19:32] Jeremy Hans: Yeah. Let's not tell anybody. But if you're listening right now, just turn it off. We didn't talk about this. Yeah.
[00:19:36] Sam Wilson: I have no idea. No idea. Jeremy, this has been a blast, man. Thanks taking the time to come on today and really talk about the opportunities you guys see in RV parks. It sound like you got a lot of a lot of passions and a lot of fun you know, that, that you incorporate into your life. And I love the way that you've built a life of style around the life that you want. And, you know, like you said, Hey, in two or three years, you may be outta the RV park industry as a whole and made your exit and moved on. But, but you are very opportunistic and I love, I love the enthusiasm and the just go for it mentality you bring to the table. So thanks for sharing with us today.
[00:20:10] Jeremy Hans: Absolutely.
[00:20:10] Sam Wilson: Appreciate it. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you and even maybe your fund, what is the best way to that?
[00:20:17] Jeremy Hans: Easiest place to find us, of course, would be the internet. So going to climbcapital.com. You can always email me directly jeremy@climbcapital.com. And I could be found in many of the major social media platforms to include some TikToks.
[00:20:29] Jeremy Hans: Nice. I'll have
[00:20:30] Sam Wilson: to look that up. TikTok, Jeremy Hans. There it is, folks. Jeremy, thanks for your time today. I do appreciate it.
[00:20:36] Jeremy Hans: Thanks guys. Thanks for having me.