May 24, 2023
Today’s guest is Jesse Burrell
Jesse is the co-founder and CEO of real estate data and technology leader BatchService. He previously spent 10 years in the real estate market where he did more than 500 wholesale deals, sold more than 50 flips, and built a successful REI business. Join Sam and Jesse in today’s episode.
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Proprietary Algorithm for Data Cleaning [00:00:00]
Jesse's Real Estate Investing Journey [00:01:23]
Challenges of Data Quality and Overcoming Them [00:06:50]
Building a team [00:08:05]
Developing leadership skills [00:09:18]
Developing processes [00:12:01]
Challenges of finding parking lot owners [00:15:26]
LLCs and corporate veil [00:16:57]
Real estate investment opportunities [00:19:05]
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Connect with Jesse:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesse-burrell/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jesseburrell/
Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jesse_burrell
Connect with Sam:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Jesse Burrell (00:00:00) - We've created a proprietary algorithm to where we're, we're pulling from a bunch of different vendors, um, cleaning, testing, and then we also have, um, a dialing and testing platform to where we're able to validate and, and use, um, information to where we could see, you know, uh, not necessarily what's right, but for bad numbers. Like numbers that are actually no longer numbers. We're able to extract those out and make sure that people aren't calling a dead phone number or having that pull up into their list because time is money. And the cleaner we could have the data, the more right party contacts we could have for, for people to call through and get in touch with homeowners that may or may not wanna sell their houses. Um, it's something we put a lot of time and effort into.
Intro (00:00:45) - Welcome to the How to scale commercial real estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
Sam Wilson (00:00:58) - Jesse Burrell is the co-founder and c e o of real estate data and technology leader batch service. Jesse's got a wealth of experience from wholesaling. Reynolds Flips, multi-family, you name it, he's done it. Jesse, welcome to the show.
Jesse Burrell (00:01:12) - Sam, thanks so much for having me on. Excited to be here. Absolutely,
Sam Wilson (00:01:15) - Jesse, the pleasure is mine. There are three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90 seconds or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now, and how did you get there?
Jesse Burrell (00:01:23) - Where did I start? I started working for, uh, out-of-state. I'm in Phoenix, an out-of-state investor, uh, in California. He was buying in, you know, 20 14, 20 15. I was basically a acquisition rep for him, finding on market deals, you know, pre foreclosures and short sales. I would call agents, negotiate distressed properties and he'd either flip 'em or he'd, uh, turn 'em into rentals and then sell 'em off to, uh, his friends and his property management company. So that's how I got started. Uh, what was the next one?
Sam Wilson (00:01:56) - Where are you, where'd you start? Where are you now? This's question number two,
Jesse Burrell (00:01:59) - Where am I now? Now, uh, I'm the c e o of actually a real estate data and technology company. So, uh, active or real estate investing isn't my active income anymore. It was for about six years, and we started to try and build software solutions for my investing company and it, it turned into such a big thing that, um, I mainly invest into some syndications, buy some multi-family, some commercial here and there, but really focused on just making sure real estate investors could go find deals on or off the market. That simple.
Sam Wilson (00:02:34) - Man, that's awesome. I love that. What was, what finally gave you this idea that said, Hey, I can start, it's batch service, right?
Jesse Burrell (00:02:43) - Yeah,
Sam Wilson (00:02:43) - Batch service. Okay. Sorry, I'm sitting here looking at this going, my notes, my notes have are, are off this screen. But, but what gave you the idea that you could start batch service and and, and then turn it into a product that you can market then to other end users?
Jesse Burrell (00:02:56) - Yeah, I, uh, I mean, just in the real estate technology and software space five, six years ago, there wasn't much there. There wasn't even ways to, you know, curate lists and keep data managed and, you know, there wasn't good ways to go skip trace and unmask property information. And we were trying to streamline it for our specific business to be more successful. And we soon realized that we had something on our hands and just started servicing the community and it came to an inflection point to where do we continue to compete against the community or just serve them since we were doing it as well. And, uh, you know, I I just love helping people and I love this. And I had been doing real estate investing full-time for a while and it was a new challenge and opportunity and I'm still able to invest. Uh, it's just not, you know, my primary income anymore. And, you know, ultimately that's probably how most people would like it is, you know, not having to chase every deal forever. But man, it's lucrative. And golly, it changed my life to be honest with you. You know, I was serving tables and working at golf courses, uh, you know, before I started working for a real estate investor. So real estate definitely changed my life in so many good ways, man,
Sam Wilson (00:04:12) - That's really, really cool. What was the, what was the, the turning point for you for when you said, cause I think a lot of people struggle with focus, but for you when you said, all right, look, we're gonna sell whatever it is of your portfolio and I'm gonna focus on batch service and just be that service provider to, uh, the rest of the, of the, of the real estate industry. When did that happen and why?
Jesse Burrell (00:04:35) - Yeah, we were spread too thin trying to run, uh, multiple businesses and to, to scale a software company like at scale and really pour into your team and grow it. Uh, we, we just couldn't have a bunch of small businesses. We had to choose to go all in on something and truly commit to it. And I, I see a lot of, um, I guess, you know, a lot of people that own small businesses want to own a bunch of small businesses instead of trying scaling one, it's actually more profitable and less of a headache if you do it with that way. And, um, just because you can make 10, 20, $30,000 a month, uh, spooling something new up that's still diverting time away from your other business or businesses to where, uh, some of the most successful people I've talked to is, you know, how much more could you have made if you went all in and is your company sellable? If you have a bunch of small businesses, people aren't gonna wanna buy those. Um, you're always gonna have to work in them and manage people working in them. So it was just a, a decision me and my founding partners decided to make. And uh, it's been a pretty good one luckily for us,
Sam Wilson (00:05:43) - Man. And those are hard decisions. I will, I will say that cuz cuz I think, I think as entrepreneurs we struggle, we struggle to say no because we, all we see is opportunity where it's like, I agree, oh, that's cool, that's cool, let's go do that. And then like you said, you've now diluted your efforts to a point to where it's, you know, you're ineffective at best at all of them as opposed to being amazing, uh, at one. The, the thing I want to hear about here, I wanna talk really dive into batch service, what you guys do a little bit more and, and just get the nuts and bolts of it. I mean, I've done plenty of my own back in the day, database building, skip tracing, finding, finding owners, and there's, there's this and that. You know, what I've found is that the quality, and I've not tried your service, so I'm not telling you yours is the same way. Clearly it's not, but Right. The quality of the data you could buy was okay at best. Oftentimes the phone numbers didn't work. Stuff like that. I mean, how, how have you guys overcome, I guess, that challenge of unmasking the, uh, unmasking the owners making that data clean? I mean, it's gotta be a constant work in progress. No,
Jesse Burrell (00:06:50) - Uh, it is and it's, it's very expensive. We have, uh, honor engineering and data science team, and I just call it our whole entire product side. We, we have over 90 people that work for us. Wow. So we have a lot of people, we have some very brilliant people and we aggregate and clean from a lot of different sources. There's a lot of big industry leaders that, that have data or phone numbers, and they just sell what they have. We're, we've created a proprietary algorithm to where we're, we're pulling from a bunch of different vendors, um, cleaning, testing, and then we also have, um, a dialing and texting platform to where we're able to validate and, and use, um, information to where we could see, you know, uh, not necessarily what's right, but for bad numbers, like numbers that are actually no longer numbers. We're able to extract those out and make sure that people aren't calling a dead phone number or having that pull up into their list because time is money. And the cleaner we could have the data, the more right party contacts we could have for, for people to call through and get in touch with homeowners that may or may not wanna sell their houses. Um, it's something we put a lot of time and effort into.
Sam Wilson (00:08:05) - Yeah. I can only imagine 90 people on the product side. I mean, building a team, building a team of that size with the skillset, you know, that that is needed to do what you guys are doing. Tell me, tell me how you got that done. What were some of the challenges there or some of the, uh, things you feel like you did really well in building a team like that? I bet that's a story all in itself.
Jesse Burrell (00:08:25) - Yeah. Uh, I have a very smart co-founder that's good on the product side, but, uh, it's really, uh, having it's, I I look it at it as a production line. So we have our core, so we have this huge core API to where that's what enables one our customers. It also enables our apps and our solutions. So we're always pulling from our core. Uh, once core builds something, it goes to product, product scopes that, uh, they make sure the business use case and deliver all those things, button everything up. And then the last steps actually, engineering, engineering is just giving you a timeline, but they're just building what core started on product, made sure these are the requirements, and then engineering goes and execute it. And then next it's marketing's job to, to let people know about it and it's sales job to close the deals. I mean, it is, it's all just one big funnel to be honest with. You.
Sam Wilson (00:09:18) - Do, do you do, did you have the, I mean, I know you said, you know, prior to real estate you were waiting tables, working at the golf course, doing whatever you could do. Um, but how did you develop that leadership skill to be the c e o of a company now that, you know, has at least 90 people, probably a lot more than that now, working for it and taking it to where you have, I mean, that's, that's a, that's that's either a natural gift or something that you've really refined and worked hard at. So tell us how you did that.
Jesse Burrell (00:09:47) - Yeah, we have about 250 people today, uh, in our organization. And I think part of it came from, uh, being a leader on the sports teams, uh, when I was younger and what I did, and the next part when we started growing, this is me and my partners refer to what we do as, you know, we're, uh, building a plane as we're flying it. Um, I had to read a lot of books, um, grow a lot. Um, there was a lot of immaturities in me, uh, when I started this company that I, I could no longer have or it's detrimental to, you know, the company to act certain ways. And being very self-aware of how you act, how you treat people, and how you lead people. And that, that just came with time and practice. And I also think I have a natural charisma. I get very excited, I get very passionate about things we're doing and it just oozes outta me. And, and people wanna follow that and get excited with me. And that's, that's just who I am as a person. But I, I had a lot of growing to do and a lot of growing up to do, um, to become the c e o and, and a good one at that. And I've, I've worked really hard to just be a better person in general, um, because it shows, um, it shows it, it really does. Yeah.
Sam Wilson (00:11:04) - Yeah. Absolutely. No, and that's, and that's a, I mean, that's a challenge to all of us. I think anytime we start becoming responsible for people and for other members in our organization, it's like, okay, well we've gotta grow up and just accept, accept the role that we have. And that's, uh, that, that can be, that can be both invigorating and, and at times a daunting thing. What about systems and processes? I know you mentioned here kind of the, you make it sound easy. You're like, oh, okay, we developed product, we go from core and then we go to product, and then it goes to engineering and then marketing, they just sell it and off, off we are to the races. But at one point in your organization, there was not all of those people and all of those processes in place. How did you guys develop that, even though you say you're building the plane as you fly it, which is, I certainly understand that, that, uh, analogy, but how did, how did you get to this point and then what were some of the things that, some challenges you had to overcome in building those processes inside of your organization?
Jesse Burrell (00:12:01) - So luckily for us when we first started building a lot of our products was we were still in the business the first two, three years that we started this business. So we were just solving pro problems. So product, uh, figuring out where we wanted to build and do, you know, product initiatives was, was very easy when we're solving problems inside our own business. And I was lucky enough to be a around and in inner circles of a lot of highly functional wholesalers and investors that are flipping in wholesaling, you know, hundreds to thousands of homes a month, or not a month, but a year. And it's seeing, you know, where their shortcomings was, what their teams need. And that's how we started building. And luckily with us, I got to partner with some great people that were using our product at the beginning. So, uh, the affiliates really pushed and grew our product at the beginning.
Jesse Burrell (00:12:51) - We had, I don't know if you know who Paces Morby or Jamil Dam G, they're on, they have a house flipping show now. And some of these bigger influencers and the niche that we had focused on at that time, they, they really, uh, shouted it from the rooftops is like, if you wanna be successful to get started in outreach, homeowners, these are the software tools that you need to use. And it was a lot of organic growth through word of mouth from them at the beginning. And, and the product road mapping was, was quite simple. As we grew, a lot more complexities came in and that's where we really focus and run our whole company with OKRs. I don't know if you're familiar with OKRs, is objectives and key results. It's what Google uses, what, um, Adobe uses a lot of the bigger or organizations, uh, run all of their stuff through, uh, objectives and key results. And it really holds teams accountable and makes sure everyone is aligned in, in people knowing, uh, what their job is and how what they do. Is it important to some of our top line goals as a company.
Sam Wilson (00:13:54) - That's really, really cool. Yeah. You know, I've heard of KPIs, OKRs is a new, a new phrase, uh, to me. But certainly those, those are invaluable as it pertains to bringing on team members, holding them accountable, establishing where we want this to go. I think that's really, really cool. And I love, I love how you guys have worked, worked your way through that. And also just the idea of, of how to market it in the beginning on bringing on bigger names that kind of help. Uh, you know, like you said, shout, shout from the rooftops about the product that you have. I do wanna clarify here cuz I've heard you mention, um, finding homeowners data, but you guys do a ton of work in the commercial space, correct?
Jesse Burrell (00:14:34) - Yeah. Uh, so I, I I normally say homeowners, uh, but yes, we have contact information for commercial multi-family people that, not just people that own homes, but people that own investment properties. If it's corporations, we have actually, we've run a lot of tests and we have the best, uh, skip tracing and uh, masking and we're creating even more proprietary stuff to where we could pierce corporate veils and figure out who those owners are and can't really go into the logistics of how we do everything. But really finding out who the owners are past that reverse engineering and, and figuring out how how do we get that information and you know, there's uh, companies like krei that uh, use us to, um, and to unmask and, and give contact information to people that are using, um, their platform. So it's been cool to start partnering with some other companies, um, and helping them make their data better as well. Yeah,
Sam Wilson (00:15:26) - Absolutely man. And that, and that's the challenge I think, you know, cause we were, we're, we're involved in, and I have been involved in several niche asset classes that have not had anyone doing any of the data research on it. One of those was parking lots and parking garages. We were into that up up until the, uh, the pandemic and it was like nobody knows who all these random parking lot owners are all across the country. I mean, I'm really, you go into a city, you're like, okay, that's a, you know, 10,000 square foot asphalt lot in the middle of the central business district, but nobody knows who owns that, right? And so, and so we had to self create that data and going out and figuring out, and we used paid services, but even then it was, I mean you could spend 20, 30 minutes researching using, uh, shoot, I forget who I used Lexi Lexus Nexus back then.
Sam Wilson (00:16:12) - But using Lexus Nexus, finding out that, then finding out who those owners are, then researching the addresses attached to it and finding if there's names, then finding out those names have phone numbers. And it was, I taught some people how to do it and we really did it at scale, but oh my gosh, building that data was just, I mean, just a nightmare really, truly. So you guys are able to go out and aggregate and like you said, you're not gonna tell us how you do it, which I don't wouldn't expect you to . Um, but, but you guys are doing this at scale. Are there, are there asset types that are harder than another? Or is it all just the same thing? Is there, I know you mentioned multifamily, but I mean, I guess let's, let's, let's start with that first question. Is there, is there some that are easier to find owners on than others? And if so, you know why?
Jesse Burrell (00:16:57) - Yes. So we don't necessarily have to go asset type, but anything that's a LLC is, is always gonna be harder, right? Because you have a homeowner tied to a property. Now, once you get into and, and you know, that's where a commercial industrial, larger multi-family is gonna get harder because you're having to pierce a corporate veil and figure out who owns this or who's registered, how do I get in contact with the right person? And that's where you have to go even deeper into corporation commissions, uh, crawl, those do do a bunch of different things and um, us and some other providers are, are working on that. So what's good is, you know, uh, how competitive we are with, you know, the people that we're competitors against is all we're doing is making stuff for you guys easier to go find the people that you want to get in contact with. And it, it gets, it's getting better, but it's still tough. You know, people will have layers and trusts and this and that. So it's more of, it depends how title's taken the harder it could get in certain ways, if that makes sense. So it's not necessarily an asset class, it's just how title's taken, uh, with that property and, and how hard or how, how much privacy someone wants the harder it could get, if that makes sense. Oh
Sam Wilson (00:18:13) - Gosh, yeah, it absolutely does. Cuz you could have LLCs that are members of LLCs that are members of LLCs and it's like, okay, how far down this do we chase this? And it, and at what point, and you probably at, at that point you ran, you wind up with a random registered agent in Montana, right? And you're like, okay,
Jesse Burrell (00:18:29) - Well
Sam Wilson (00:18:30) - Now we're, we're back to where we started, which is nowhere. So it, uh, yeah, it is, it is an interesting, interesting thing and, and you know, overcoming that challenge, I think is where the, that's where the, uh, the gold lies. So tell me this, uh, you're all in on your business right now, you know, tell me what are some cool things maybe on the real estate side of things that you're looking for personally? You said, hey, here's, here's where I see opportunity. I know you mentioned okay, you're kind of doing more the more the syndication side of things, but is there anything right now that is particularly striking your, uh, fancy as you look at real estate and kind of the risk profiles that are out there right now?
Jesse Burrell (00:19:05) - I, I'm really interested to see with interest rates where they are and loads coming due, I, I see a lot of potential in commercial, uh, potentially, uh, just depending on what type of discounts are gonna happen and, and where interest rates are. And if you know there's gonna be foreclosures or people are gonna, I, I see a lot of interest there. Uh, everything else i, I currently still see is too expensive. I, I think the market went up so much. I still think there's some pullback and I've learned from a lot of smart people and from my own experiences, uh, if you're in a rush to buy real estate, that's when that's when you could lose is, is be patient, wait for the right deal, don't force deals to come upon you. And um, if something fell into my lap that, you know, was single family or even multi-family, I would be open to it.
Jesse Burrell (00:19:58) - But I just still feel like there's, there's still more room to go and unless that cap rate makes sense, it's just, I, I'm not interested. And I have some friends, uh, in the industry that are doing some really good syndications that bought the land, uh, before covid happened and they're finally, you know, getting through and getting the building. Uh, why, why do anything if I could just invest in them and, and see really nice returns, I, I, those are the opportunities I really look for right now, cuz I don't have the time to actively participate and, and focus on, on, on building something or managing something. Even, even if you, if I go buy a multi-family and hire property manager, they're still going to call me. This happened, that happened, that happened, right? I, I don't have time for that. When I say I'm singular focused on growing batch in our data company, that's where my focus lies and there's a lot bigger return on investment on what it would look like to sell this company than to buy a few one-off real estate things is I wanna sell this for nine to 10 figures and then I want to go back into real estate full-time and deploy my capital into very, very large deals.
Jesse Burrell (00:21:10) - Is is the ultimate goal of what I'd like to do in the next five to 10 years. Got
Sam Wilson (00:21:13) - It. I love it, man. Jesse, thank you for taking the time here to come on the show today. I've learned a lot from you here on growing companies on what it means to grow yourself as a leader and things you've had to overcome on that front. We've talked about processes, we've talked about team, uh, we've talked about, you know, you selling off your real estate in order to singularly focus on batch service, which is a word I think to us all, which is to, uh, absolutely focus. I'm looking forward to trying out here your, uh, your program. It looks pretty cool. If our listeners do want to get in touch with you or learn more about batch service, what is the best way to do that?
Jesse Burrell (00:21:46) - Yeah, just my first and last name on Instagram. Not a big social media guy, but I check my dms if you have any questions, I'm always, I'm always here to help and give some insights on some of the experience I've had.
Sam Wilson (00:21:57) - Fantastic. And there, those of you who are just listening, that's Jesse Burrell, b u r r e l l, and then, uh, your website there as well as batch service.com. Make sure we put all of that there in the show notes. Jesse, thank you again for coming on the show today. I do appreciate it,
Jesse Burrell (00:22:12) - Tim. Thanks for having me.
Sam Wilson (00:22:13) - Hey, thanks for listening
Sam Wilson (00:22:14) - To the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can, do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, whatever platform it is you use to listen.
Sam Wilson (00:22:26) - If you can do that for
Sam Wilson (00:22:27) - Us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.