Feb 25, 2022
Can anyone invest in real estate?
No matter your age or gender, you can invest in real estate by educating yourself and finding a mentor who will guide you through your journey. This is what Ruth Hiller believes and is sharing with her fellow women investors who are still navigating the seemingly complex world of multifamily investing.
Ruth calls herself an “accidental businesswoman” due to a legacy asset that she’s forced to study to capitalize on its value. Years later, she founded YesMF! to help her investors grow their wealth and passive income through multifamily real estate.
She has also invested in more than 2,000 multifamily properties as a general and limited partner.
[00:01 - 05:04] Opening Segment
- Ruth Hiller happily shares how she got into real estate investing
- Listen to her experience in selling a legacy asset
[05:05 - 14:23] Real Estate Investing For Women
- This is the reason Ruth calls herself an “accidental businesswoman”
- Ruth talks about her background as a graphic designer
-
- How she applies graphic design to real estate
- The first parameter she looks at on a deal
- Ruth shares her experience in raising capital for the first time
[14:24 - 16:49] Final Four Segment
- A tool or resource you can’t live without
-
- An underwriting tool called, Property Analyzer
- A real estate mistake you want our listeners to avoid
-
- Not educating yourself
- Find yourself a mentor and educate yourself
- Your way to make the world a better place
-
- Promoting financial literacy and mindset among women
- Reach out to Ruth
-
- See links below
- Final words
Tweetable Quotes
“Find a mentor and educate yourself before you invest in your first deal.” - Ruth Hiller
“My number one parameter for a deal is I have to know, like, and trust the sponsor team.” - Ruth Hiller
“I'm a firm believer in financial literacy and mindset, especially for women…I want to add value to that group to make sure it's possible [that] anyone can do it.” - Ruth Hiller
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email ruth@yesmfnow.com to connect with Ruth or follow her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram.
Join Ruth on her mission to help women grow wealth and passive income through multifamily investing!
Connect with me:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Like, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on. Thank you for tuning in!
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Ruth Hiller 00:00
Find a mentor and educate yourself before you invest in your first deal. I invested in multifamily 22 years ago. I had to do a 1031 exchange and I had a bad feeling about it. I did it anyway. I didn't know about due diligence. I didn't know about lease audits. Have I had a mentor back then, then I would have avoided losing money on that deal.
Intro 00:20
Welcome to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we will teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
Sam Wilson 00:32
Ruth Hiller has invested in over 2,000 multifamily doors as a GP and an LP and one thing to know is that Ruth calls herself the accidental businesswoman, which I think is absolutely hilarious. Ruth, look forward to jumping in today and find out more about that. Welcome to the show.
Ruth Hiller 00:49
Thanks, Sam. First of all, thank you, I'm really honored that you invited me to be on your podcast. I've looked at your other guests. Listen, it's amazing. So thank you for having me. And I hope that I can add value to you and your audience today.
Sam Wilson 01:00
I'm certain you can. You've done a lot, do 1,000 doors, even if it were all an LP would be a lot to talk about because there's so many lessons you can learn, I think in this business from both sides of the equation, but you've been on both sides of this quite a bit on you know, as a GP in an LP. There's three questions I ask every guest who come to the show, though. In 90 seconds or less, can you tell us where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?
Ruth Hiller 01:21
Where did I start? I inherited 119-unit multifamily building 22 years ago, I come from three generations of multifamily investors, my grandma invested in multifamily in the 40s to support her family had an A has she knew how to do that. Then my parents bought this property in California in the 60s. And when they died 22 years ago, I inherited it. And I didn't really become involved in the business till about four years ago when I went to a Tony Robbins event. And I decided like I need to be more involved in understand this. This has been a part of my life. And so I wanted to learn how to optimize the business I owned. And so I met my mentor there and signed up for his course. And he helped me optimize that and get helped me get my start. In my multifamily investing career. I've been involved in that now for about two and a half years.
Sam Wilson 02:09
Wow, that's interesting. So you guys owned it for 22 years after you inherited it. So you must have inherited it with some other family members.
Ruth Hiller 02:16
Yes, I inherited it with them, my uncle and then he died about six years ago. And then my cousins took over, unfortunately, or fortunately, however, you want to look at it, we didn't get along very well. So you know, as Tony Robbins says like, they were worthy opponent, right. So I had to educate myself. And so that's how I got so involved. The reason I got so involved in the multifamily ecosystem was so I could educate myself and optimize that business. I had no idea that I was going to be a GP. I knew I'd do passive investing. But I, Yeah, that wasn't on my vision board at that point.
Sam Wilson 02:46
Right? That's really, really interesting. And so you guys, I think we talked about this off-air, but you have finally gotten that asset to a point where you're ready to sell it.
Ruth Hiller 02:54
It is under contract and ready to go. We are Wait, I'm waiting for the Show Me the Money, you know.
Sam Wilson 03:01
Outside of and I'm not asking for all the family dirt, but outside of maybe, you know, internal conflicts or just disagreements on how an asset should be run. Why are you selling using selling the proverbial milk cow?
Ruth Hiller 03:13
Because it wasn't optimized and I'm 50%. And they're 50%. And we were just in a business deadlock. And so after studying with my mentor, and you know, I wrote like 40 business plans, I underwrote it, I “Oh, you could add this, you could add that, oh my god, you could triple the income.” And they were like, man, we're good. We like it just the way it is. So it was an impetus for me to just understand more about this. And so I knew I couldn't do it with that particular business. And that's alright. I've done it in other businesses that I've bought other multifamilies.
Sam Wilson 03:44
Right, now that's intriguing. Yeah. So you guys, if you couldn't come to an agreement on how the asset should be run, you at least come to an agreement on the fact that, hey, we can all sell this and make some money along the way.
Ruth Hiller 03:54
And the good news was, it was worth triple what I thought it was.
Sam Wilson 03:59
That's always good news. Had there been any surprises, you know, owning a legacy asset like that, because I think you said you guys have owned it since the 60s.
Ruth Hiller 04:07
My parents bought it in 1968. It went through various stages where like it was when they bought it, it was a kind of like it's west of Compton, which was in a great area in the 60s. So there was a lot of problems there with that. And then we had luckily had a property manager that stabilized the property. And it's been pretty, it's been cash flowing and pretty good. But we've had a lot of deferred maintenance that I'm going to say we didn't pay that much attention to until recently.
Sam Wilson 04:33
Right. So you had to get a lot of those things corrected and cleaned up before disposition.
Ruth Hiller 04:37
Yes, the thing that I've learned too, about, you know, writing that into a business plan, it's like what is the CAPEX that you want to do because we buy mostly B and C class properties. So there's always going to be some sort of deferred maintenance and I like having the business plan, knowing what we're going to do and like when you're, you know, when you have those kind of assets, there's always going to be plumbing problems. There's always going to be you know, air conditioning problems, some of the older stuff, bill, you know, it's gonna have lead paint or some other stuff. So you have to be aware of that when you're buying that kind of asset.
Sam Wilson 05:05
Yeah, absolutely. That's really, really intriguing. Talk to us, you know, you guys, so you're selling this 119-unit, what was the transition? When you said, “Alright, so now that I've educated myself on this asset we currently own,” which has a really cool way to get into real estate, by the way. Yeah, I don't think anybody come on the show. They're like, yeah, I inherited 119 units. And that's how I got into real estate.
Ruth Hiller 05:25
That's why I call myself the accidental businesswoman because I've, and then I bought a bunch of other real estate on my own single family homes. And then it was until a few years ago, I'm like, Oh, my God, this is a business. Right? So I kind of jokingly say, I'm the accidental businesswoman.
Sam Wilson 05:38
Oh, that's funny. I like that. You know, what was the jump where you said, you know, it's one thing to say, Okay, I own this, I want to learn about it. So I know how to run it properly. And then at what point was liable, you said, “Hey, wait, I can actually just go out and buy more of this because this makes all the sense in the world.”
Ruth Hiller 05:52
It was three years ago, I was sitting on a bus in Malaysia, and I turned to the guy next to me, and I'm like, what do you do? And he's like, I teach multifamily apartment investing in B and C class properties. I'm like, what, like, I own one of those. And so I joined his program. And I went to his first seminar, and I took 500 pages of notes. And that day, they do 506 B, which means you have to have an existing relationship with the person that you're investing with. And I had one with him. And he said, “Hey, I have a deal. Do you want to invest?” I'm like, hell yeah. Right. So that's where I got started. And I been in that ecosystem two and a half years and gotten to know enough people who are great operators, who I'd want to invest in. And then this last year, I invested in 10 LP deals, and then I did my first co-GP in November.
Sam Wilson 06:36
Wow, that's a strong move to jump in on 10 LP deals. Talk to us about your design background. What is that? And then I got some other kind of questions to bounce off of that related to what you just said.
Ruth Hiller 06:47
I went to Art Center College of Design, I've trained as a graphic designer. So that's my background, I just decided that's not what I like to do as a living. So I've, you know, I've painted, I've done a bunch of things, and I still love design. And so I always love to help, like on these projects, you know, to help design stuff because I have a really great eye for interiors, and for signage. And just for the way things should look.
Sam Wilson 07:11
That's intriguing. So has anybody or I guess how have you brought that to the table from a limited partner's perspective?
Ruth Hiller 07:17
I haven't from the limited partners perspective as to co-GP that was one of my duties was to design the signage and the paint scheme. And some of the, you know, the investor gifts and stuff like that. I just I love that. It's I designed the deck that you know how, when you present a deal, I design the investor deck. And so that's another way that I can be creative because I like to use both sides of my brain even though I'm an accidental businesswoman. I like to you know, here's my other side of my brain to be creative.
Sam Wilson 07:45
100%. And man, do we ever need the creatives in this business. For those of us that have not a shred of creativity in them? I guess speaking from personal experience, it's like, I don't know, like, “What do you mean?” Like, I can't even dream it up, let alone on make it look good and Photoshop. So or whatever you're using Illustrator? I don't even know the right software. How have you analyzed deals, because there is this is a very kind of like, hey, the numbers work or the numbers don't right. But from an artist perspective, with a more, you know, creative person, it's a little more, I guess, dynamic and moving where you go, hey, you know, I like that deal. I don't like that deal. So what have been some things that you said, “Hey, here's how I analyze the deal that I want to get involved in,” just kind of walk us through that process.
Ruth Hiller 08:24
My number one parameter for a deal is I have to know like and trust the sponsor team. That's number one. Before I even look at the deal, I get deals every day, they “Oh, it looks amazing.” But I don't, yeah, no. And then I have a really good intuition about people. And the second parameter is the location, it has to be a location. And then, you know, after studying with my mentor, I can analyze a deal. I can go through the software and understand where they're getting the number. So I have to, you know, I said the others, this guy, Keith Cunningham, who's a business guy, and his mantra is I love numbers. And numbers love me. So I've trained myself to love the numbers and the spreadsheets because that's part of it. Right? Even though that's not where my brain initially wants to go.
Sam Wilson 09:05
Right. And I think I love your ordering there. Because that reframes and we've I've said this, we just said this, in the last interview I was just doing, which I mean, it's the same thing over and over is the people, then it is the location, and then it's the numbers, which the soft skills. I mean, that's a very soft skill, but it has all the bearing in the world on how the deal turns out, is finding the right people and you said there's, you know, you use your intuition, even when you are vetting sponsors, what does that mean to you? What are some things that you personally do you say, “Okay, this is how I figure out if I know I can trust this person.”
Ruth Hiller 09:35
I have a really good intuition. So I don't know what it is. It was a gift that was given to me, like someone comes up to me and I'm like, oh, hell, no, I don't know how to explain that. That your soul, like spirit. I don't know what that is. But it's interesting. So I usually I have to listen to that. And I find when I don't listen to that, it's, it's interesting. Sometimes it hasn't worked out, you know, I'm like, I didn't listen to that voice. I should have, you know, and so I just have a feeling and then most of the time I haven't changed my mind on that feeling, you know, unless I tried to push against it, I guess I don't know if everyone has that in them, it's just have to sit down and listen to that. So that would be a first thing. And then, you know, I've been in this ecosystem for like two and a half years. I work specifically in that ecosystem. And so the outcome I wanted was to get to know as many people as possible because I'm a people person and see, who do I resonate with, right, you know, how can I add value to them? And how can they add value to me? How would we make a great team?
Sam Wilson 10:28
That's a great point. I love that it's funny, you know, intuition is probably something that gets overlooked. And probably just in the West in general, it's like, you got to follow what it is that your gut says is good or bad. And if you don't, I'm with you, I have gone against my gut on more than one occasion. And I can tell you, it just like you said, it's never turned out. I've never been like, now we're gonna do this anyway, like all that turned out great. It always ends up being bad.
Ruth Hiller 10:52
I know right? But you just have to listen to that. And I think coming from an art background, I have a lot of intuition that like what I'm creating, you know, to me, it just comes out. Right. So I'm more aligned a little bit more in tune with that, right? I'm used to just listening to that. And then if I force it, no, it's not good.
Sam Wilson 11:10
No, it definitely isn't. And I think that's an interesting thing. And we don't talk about it a lot on this show. We've had a few guests that kind of brought this up. But yes, this is a hard skills business or hard seeming skills business. It's like, hey, the numbers make sense, the right location, the cities, right, all these things line up. But it also, there's just some things you got to pay attention to along the way, I know we avoided I avoided buying 10s of millions of dollars worth of assets just before the pandemic and I know not everybody had this, but it was an asset class that really got kicked, you know, it just got taken out at the knees. And I had a really bad sense about the deal. So it's like, everything pencils, it looks amazing. Like, this and I was sick to my stomach. We didn't buy it. And then not three months later, I mean, those were just doing terrible and still so high. Okay, well, I'm listening to it.
Ruth Hiller 11:56
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Sam Wilson 11:58
That's certainly awesome. Talk to me about your first raise. You know, you guys just did this in November, you closed your first I think 1430unit property in Carrollton. Was that right? Harrison? Texas? Yeah, yeah. about raising them. You raised a few million bucks right out of the gate. How was that?
Ruth Hiller 12:13
Well, my partner had a lot of confidence in me, I was a little nervous because it was my first one. And now I have a pretty big community. I'm in the Tony Robbins community I'm in, you know, my mentors, community, and my home community. And so I'm like, she's like, “You can do it.” And I'm just like, Alright, and so a lot of people are really interested because my mentor had said, like, make sure you nurture your database before you go out and raise money. So for like, the six months before I got that deal, I wrote lots of articles on like, what is the syndication? You know, because a lot of my investors were new. So it was mostly education so that when the deal came, people were like, they were ready for it. So that was good advice from him. I thought that was amazing. And so the thing about raising like, everyone seems really interested, you make this list you call people, you just tell them the numbers. And then some of them ghost you. I'm okay with that right. But at the end when like, it's kind of like herding cats like, Okay, you need to get the PPM signed, you need to like, get this going. And oh, yeah, yeah, I'll do that. And then just like, make sure you do it by this deadline, the deadline’s up, you know, and so I think that was the hardest thing. And so I'll know going into the next one that like, I hopefully, I'll know how to handle that in the next capital race, which will be coming soon.
Sam Wilson 13:21
Right? And that's something you said herding cats, it's absolutely true. You know, and especially as you start raising, you know, millions at a time. It is, man, it's tough to get everybody to get their documents signed, because then you get somebody that's get stuck on the portal, or you get somebody that hasn't wired their funds yet, or if there's even, I mean, I did it to somebody last week and other syndicator that I'm putting some money in passively. It was, hey, I'm in the deal. I'm gonna get doc sign and wire money. And then the week, you know, just disappeared on me. And it's like, Friday afternoon. I'm like, “Hey, I'm really sorry. Just kind of didn't have time.” So anyway, I had to deal with that on Monday. I'm like, golly, I'm doing the same thing that somebody else did. It to me. This is awful.
Ruth Hiller 13:58
Yeah, that's part of it, right? That's just part of it.
Sam Wilson 14:01
Yeah, it is. It's herding cats and getting people on board. But Congrats on getting that done. That's a big raise out of the gate. And I think that's pretty impressive and a testament to not just your ability to vet and find good deals and partners, but also just the intuitiveness that you have there. You said like some will goes to you. And that's okay. Don't take it personally just keep moving. So…
Ruth Hiller 14:20
I say persistence is my middle name.
Sam Wilson 14:24
Businesswoman who persistence is her middle name. Ruth, thank you for coming on the show today. This has been a blast to jump into the final four questions. The first one is this. What is one tool or resource, think digital, software, something along those lines you find you can't live without?
Ruth Hiller 14:38
That Property Analyzer that is supplied to me by my mentor group.
Sam Wilson 14:42
What is that Property Analyzer?
Ruth Hiller 14:44
It's an underwriting tool for me, okay, so I can take and I could take an OM and I can take the rent rolls and plug it in. I can't live with that because I'm the accidental businesswoman. Hell no, I can't make my own.
Sam Wilson 14:55
No understood. That's absolutely tremendous. Question number two is what is one mistake real estate you could help our listeners avoid and how would you avoid it?
Ruth Hiller 15:03
I would say find a mentor and educate yourself before you invest in your first deal. I invested in multifamily 22 years ago. I had to do a 1031 exchange and I had a bad feeling about it. I did it anyway. I didn't know about due diligence. I didn't know about lease audits. Have I had a mentor back then, then I would have avoided losing money on that deal.
Sam Wilson 15:24
Right, yeah, absolutely. Ruth, when it comes to investing in the world, what's one thing you're doing right now to make the world a better place?
Ruth Hiller 15:31
I'd like to mentor and help people. And I also like to donate money. I'm a firm believer in financial literacy and mindset, especially for women because I feel like a lot of my investors are women, it's their first time and they've never done it. And so I want to add value to that group to make sure like it's possible anyone can do it, right? You can be 60 and do it. It doesn't matter. You just want to educate people to, so that they can feel confident to take the first step.
Sam Wilson 15:55
Right. I love that. Ruth, if our listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about you. What is the best way to do that?
Ruth Hiller 16:00
My website is yesmfnow.com. I don't know what you're thinking but MF stands for multifamily. Should you invest? Yes, MF. You should.
Sam Wilson 16:10
Yesmf.com. Is that right? Yes…
Ruth Hiller 16:14
YesMF, Yesmfnow.com
Sam Wilson 16:17
Okay. Cool. Ruth, thank you for your time today. I do appreciate it. It was a pleasure and honor to have you on.
Ruth Hiller 16:23
Thanks so much. It was great. Thank you.
Sam Wilson 16:24
Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen, if you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners, as well as rank higher on those directories. So I appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.