Mar 18, 2024
Today’s guest are Alex Morrison and Andrew Runnette.
Alex Morrison has broad experience across real estate, capital markets and startups. Alex currently is the founder and CEO of Portal Warehousing, an innovative real estate operating company in the flex warehousing space.
Show summary:
In this podcast episode, Andrew and Alex, co-founders of Portal Warehousing, discuss their innovative flex warehousing business. They detail how they provide small industrial spaces to various businesses, emphasizing the flexibility and services they offer, such as logistics support and community building for their members. They share their strategic approach to market underwriting, building selection, and the importance of location in gentrifying areas. Despite challenges in scaling and logistics, they highlight their efficient systems and the high demand for their spaces, evidenced by rapid occupancy rates. The co-founders invite building owners to consider management deals with Portal Warehousing, which seeks to expand its unique model nationwide.
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Intro (00:00:00)
Concept of Flex Warehousing (00:02:17)
Finding Properties and Plugging Tenants (00:07:17)
Membership Perks and Differentiation from Self-Storage (00:12:27)
Challenges in Scaling and Overcoming Them (00:17:08)
Underwriting Deals and Selecting Locations (00:18:17)
Underwriting Markets and Demand Generation (00:18:59)
Building Criteria and Location (00:20:12)
Real Estate Cost and Client Opportunities (00:21:34)
Minimum Building Size (00:23:07)
Conclusion and Contact Information (00:23:55)
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Connect with Alex and Andrew:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/portalwarehousing
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/portalwarehousing/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/portal-warehousing/
Connect with Sam:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Alex Morrison (00:00:00) - They have very limited options after they outgrow their first space, which maybe is a garage, maybe a bedroom as they get to that next level., the options drop off. They need to sign a five year lease, and there's not a lot of space that's available sub 5000ft². So what portal is doing is being an institutional level provider of small warehousing space.
Sam Wilson (00:00:19) - Welcome to the how to scale commercial real Estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
Sam Wilson (00:00:32) - I've got Andrew and Alex with me here today from Portal Warehousing. Andrew and Alex, welcome to the show.
Alex Morrison (00:00:38) - Thanks so much for having us.
Andrew Runnette (00:00:39) - Absolutely.
Sam Wilson (00:00:40) - The pleasure's mine. I always asked every guest who comes on the show in 90s or less. Where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there? And, Andrew, if you don't mind kicking us off by answering that question. And then Alex, I guess we'll have you be up next after that.
Andrew Runnette (00:00:55) - Yeah. No problem. Thanks for having us on., we started the company about three years ago., we just opened our fourth warehouse,, and we've got for,, Salt Lake, Tempe, Brooklyn and LA., it's been a journey, and we're, you know, we're growing and just moving on to the next one as we go. So I'll let Alex take it from there.
Alex Morrison (00:01:21) - Yeah. I mean, the the genesis of the company actually came at the start of Covid when the world changed. And, you know, traditional methods of real estate were kind of changed overnight. And I was based in LA, and the only thing you could, you could tour for the first six months of Covid were industrial buildings., so we looked at buying a lot of industrial buildings for my last,, the company I worked for lastly, which was a real estate private equity company. And ultimately that journey led us to developing an operating company that could plug into vacant real estate and add a lot of value.
Alex Morrison (00:01:54) - And that and that, you know, three years later is portal. And what we do is as effectively,, we're a co warehousing, flex warehousing operators. So we provide industrial space for businesses of all sizes to, to use for all sorts of purposes. But basically the solution is a flexible industrial product that,, serves a lot of needs on the logistics side and the warehousing side.
Sam Wilson (00:02:17) - Okay, that's really, really cool. I love that in the name again of your company is Portal Warehousing going to learn more about it? I think it's join-portal.com. So give me a breakdown on that. Like what's a who's a customer. What is flexible warehousing I know we talked about this before the show. You guys said something along the lines of, you feel like where you are now is where maybe self storage was 30 or 40 years ago. Kind of give us just a broad overview if you can.
Alex Morrison (00:02:43) - Yeah. Like I'd say from a fundamental perspective, if you think about an industrial business or an industrial user of space,, there's a long tail of users that are smaller.
Alex Morrison (00:02:53) - , you know, the Amazons of the world take on 50,000 100,000ft² plus of spaces, but there's a massive amount of companies that just need a couple thousand square feet or less space. And their options are super limited. So the genesis of portal was actually thinking about our network in the e-commerce space and learning, you know, their their kind of supply profile as you as you start a company and think about the last company you saw advertising or purchase from on Instagram, these companies have products they need somewhere to store them and fulfill them out of. They have very limited options after they outgrow their first space, which maybe is a garage, maybe a bedroom as they get to that next level,, the options drop off. They need to sign a five year lease, and there's not a lot of space that's available sub 5000ft². So what portal is doing is being an institutional level provider of small warehousing space.
Sam Wilson (00:03:42) - Got it. An institutional provider of small warehousing space. Is this kind of I mean, we're going to use this maybe not even the right term, but I mean, we see it happening across Airbnb ten years ago, you know, hey, we're working.
Sam Wilson (00:03:55) - We're doing you know, people are renting out their houses on Airbnb. We're seeing it happen in the parking industry where we're, you know, anybody with a lot that can park a semi and some other things those get, you know, turned into,, you know, semi parking spaces. And you guys kind of saw this, I guess same opportunity in again, smaller, potentially unused spaces. And or maybe you're taking big buildings and converting them I don't know. I mean it's that kind of am I thinking along the right lines here.
Alex Morrison (00:04:21) - Yeah, exactly. The thought is there is a massive amount of of customers out there that need a functional place to operate. They don't need the 32 foot clear class A building. They just need an industrial logistics environment with a dock door and loading in a commercial address. And we can take spaces that range from your class A warehouse to, you know, our newest location in Brooklyn is actually on the seventh floor of a multi-story, you know, a true multi-story warehouse that was built 100 years ago with freight elevators and logistics for that manufacturing kind of company.
Alex Morrison (00:04:52) - We can plug our customer in. That just needs a highly functional space,, and some logistics services and basically fill buildings that, you know, are antiquated from today's traditional logistics perspective.
Sam Wilson (00:05:06) - Got it. Okay. That's really, really cool. Tell me, I guess when you you guys are all over the country, you said Salt Lake City, Tempe, Brooklyn, Los Angeles. How how do you underwrite? How do you even figure out if this model will work where you guys are going?
Alex Morrison (00:05:24) - I mean, we there is an enormous demand. We think this product works in, in every city. We have to be smart on location. We're really focused on infill amenities markets. If you think about our customer profile, which Andrew can kind of jump into a little bit, they want to be in a convenient we're really selling convenience as well as space here. The core product is space, but it's also the alternatives are very slim. So our customers are paying for for high quality functional space near where they where they work.
Alex Morrison (00:05:55) - So generally that means last mile locations that are infill. They'd rather be in downtown LA than going out to the Inland Empire, for example. And Andrew, one of you, you know, show Sean some of our story, Sam, some of our,, example kind of customers that we work with.
Andrew Runnette (00:06:13) - Yeah. We've seen a lot of crossover sand between, you know, people doing industrial work but also doing e-commerce work, but also using the spaces where they work out of it as well. So you've got your side hustler, you've got your Amazon full fillers, right. You've got all those kind of profiles that come across, but also a lot of service industry customers where, you know, satnav company, right. They get a contract to do some restaurants in Phoenix, for example. We've had this numerous times where they come in and use our warehouse to fulfill their contract. Then they're gone, right? So it's flexible. You know, they're signing a six month lease or a 12 month lease and, you know, that's it.
Sam Wilson (00:06:55) - That's really interesting. How how does it work? I guess, you know, from a buildout perspective. Are you guys are you guys subleasing space from another, you know, are you guys buying the warehouse and then, you know, making it into smaller bays or are you guys buying are you guys subleasing space and then leasing that out again. Like how are you guys finding the properties and then plugging the right tenant into the right spots.
Alex Morrison (00:07:17) - Yeah. Like,, just to kind of exhibit an example is our, our building in, in Brooklyn., we have a bunch of different strategies. We do select releases, but generally we're moving away from that. We're doing mostly management deals now and then acquisitions through some of our capital partners or where our partner buys a vacant building and we come in and operate it and generate a pretty big increase in NOI, because we're generally getting at least three times market rents on our on our, our spaces, because we're making them much smaller than a market lease is.
Alex Morrison (00:07:50) - , so we'll take a 50,000 square foot warehouse and break it down into spaces that average about 500 or 700ft², where 50 companies can operate out of. And we have a logistics operational component where we help them with a bunch of services and give them an awesome space to work out of. But for the most part, you know, they're doing their own business within their own space. It's private, but they share the logistics infrastructure, so we're allowing companies that will never have access to things like a dock door., because generally, it's hard to find that when you when you are below 5000ft² and don't want to sign a five year lease, where do you find infrastructure like that? We can provide someone who needs 200ft² of space with a commercial, you know, dock door, which which allows them to grow their business very quickly and grow with us.
Sam Wilson (00:08:36) - Got it. So you guys, are you guys moving? I maybe I misheard this, but you're moving away from the like actually buying of the of the warehousing and then leasing them out and more into the management model.
Sam Wilson (00:08:47) - Is that kind of what I'm hearing?
Alex Morrison (00:08:50) - Yeah. The last two deals that we did were management deals., and one of them was an acquisition through a partner of ours, and the other was a third party management deal. And we're seeing a lot of opportunity with that as the as the product matures and, and the track record kind of appears and it looks really good. Really good. Honestly, our track record in terms of filling space or buildings or 100% full generating big premiums, people are saying, can you do this with us? Can you do this in our building? And we can take some of these funkier buildings that are in, you know, gentrifying pockets but are not class A industrial and generate like class A+ rents on those, right?
Sam Wilson (00:09:24) - No, that makes a lot of sense. And I would think from a scalability model, I mean, that's far more scalable than you guys, one building at a time, taking it, building it out, doing whatever you're going to do, then managing it and then going back to the next building.
Sam Wilson (00:09:37) - Like at this point, your customer base is nationwide. You're you're just running the management side of it. How does that work? Say, I came to you today and I said, hey, I need 200ft² and, you know, Salt Lake City, like, how do you how do you define what that 200ft² is? And where does a customer, I mean, what's what's that space even potentially look like?
Andrew Runnette (00:09:57) - It's pretty small, but it works for a lot of people., but it's already set, you know, it's got a it's got a key. It's got a door, you know, it's it's already set. We we've modeled out how many we need of that size in each of our locations. And we've got 250ft², 500,015 hundred square foot spaces that are just predefined. And people make it work and they, you know, they can move in same day. Really. We've made it really easy. We've automated everything.
Sam Wilson (00:10:27) - So it is a lot like I mean a storage unit. It's just you walk in, you get the keys.
Sam Wilson (00:10:32) - Hey, this is the size,, you know, like you said, two 5500 was your next one 1500 square feet something along those lines? You can pick one of those three sizes and boom, you're ready to go.
Andrew Runnette (00:10:43) - Yeah. And we've we've taken a lot of learnings from storage. Right. We've taken a lot of learnings there and and really automated things and made it pretty easy. We only have one general manager at each location, so operating a 40,000 square foot warehouse.
Sam Wilson (00:11:00) - Right. Okay. What were you going to say, Alex?
Alex Morrison (00:11:03) - I was going to say, we mentioned earlier on the call that, you know, we see a lot of similarities between storage. I think another another name for this product is could be like industrial Self Storage, where it looks like self storage. It feels like self storage. Our customers are not people, they're businesses., and it's a very diversified rent roll. And you know, we're cutting up space. It's a you know, it's changing the model to a monthly model versus a per square foot model.
Alex Morrison (00:11:27) - And, and that's what storage does. And you can get some pretty big premiums when you do that., so so we do think this is,, like an early asset class that you'll see more and more of and just like self storage., you know, 30 years ago, it was,, mom and pop industry or maybe not institutional industry. And now it's a darling of real estate. So, you know, not to say that that will become of this, but I think it could I really do.
Sam Wilson (00:11:52) - Got it. So let's say you rent that 1000 square foot space or 1500 square foot space. But I am looking at I think one of the things that you mentioned here was that all of your spaces have a services component that goes along with it, maybe that you're not going to find,, I guess I'm what I'm searching for here is the differentiator between self-storage and what you guys are doing. And I know there is one. So maybe you guys can clarify that for me, because when I see here 200ft², I'm thinking, well, why not just go rent to ten by ten, roll up storage units, and then you're at 200ft², and it's probably less than maybe what you guys do.
Sam Wilson (00:12:23) - But there's got to be some differentiator there. So tell me what that is. Maybe.
Andrew Runnette (00:12:27) - I think there's two,. The docs, as Alex. Alex mentioned earlier. Right? You can't find a loading dock at it. Such a small space. Right?, and then second would be we receive goods for people. So say you have 6 or 7 pallets coming in. You let us know. We'll grab them off the truck for you. Pretty simple. And we'll throw them in your unit if needed or, you know, if you can't be there. So companies are saving you know that labor piece, right? They're saving the money right there by not having to have somebody out there warehouse at all times.
Sam Wilson (00:13:00) - Absolutely. And if you don't know, for those of you that's never been in a business that has receivables like that, that come on trucks, I was a long time ago. And what a nuisance that is. Man in the middle of the day you're trying to get something done and all of a sudden there's somebody knocking hey man, there's a there's a semi trailer out back like crud okay, let's go pull something.
Alex Morrison (00:13:19) - And we also help on more on the logistics side too. I mean we help with the outbound and the inbound. So you know we arrange pick ups from all the major carriers. So from a if you're a small e-commerce brand sending out 100 packages a day, all you need to do is give you past a product that's been packaged to us, and we'll handle it from there. And we aggregate that amongst the facility. So we have economies of scale and get the past that labor cost and the shipping costs. Savings on to our members. So there's a big component of of the logistic services that, you know, we have a lot of companies that actually come to us from self-storage. They're in 4 or 5, six self storage spaces, and at some point that breaks and it's definitely a more affordable model. But at some point you have to make a decision, do I want to run my keep growing my business professionally or do I want to stay, you know, limited by storage units and in generally, you know, it breaks at some point.
Alex Morrison (00:14:10) - So, you know, our model is kind of the next stage. If they're not ready to go lease a 2000 square foot industrial space, if they can even find it, where the next kind of stepping stone for that, for that journey.
Sam Wilson (00:14:21) - Right. Yeah. Like you like you mentioned there, if you can even find it, let alone being able to find it on flexible terms, you know, which it sounds like that's another perk that you guys have where it's not, hey, we're not tied in for 5 or 10 years on an industrial space. It is. You know, I don't know what you're I'm sure there are varying lease terms, but it's it's probably much shorter duration, I would guess.
Alex Morrison (00:14:43) - Yeah, it's 3 to 12 month terms. And generally, you know,, customers don't leave us after their initial term. They just they like the flexibility. Something changes. We, you know, we've had companies grow from our smallest space to our largest space, 200ft² to 2000ft² over the course of a year.
Alex Morrison (00:14:59) - And then and then they're ready for their next, you know, traditional term. And they'll go find a 5000 square foot building to lease on a five year basis. But they might not be ready for that for, you know, a number of reasons when they first joined us.
Sam Wilson (00:15:11) - Right. Oh, that's really, really cool. You mentioned the term member. And I'm looking here at your website and one of the line items across the top on the menu bar, I guess that's what that's called., is this membership perks. What is.
Andrew Runnette (00:15:22) - That. Yeah, we touched on some of it. I mean, that that's, you know, the technology partnerships, meaning the shipping platform,, you know, the receiving for customers, the outbound. So setting up, you know, they don't have to set up accounts with Fedex UPS, right? They can just come in to us and use our accounts and ship out to their customers. You know? And that way they get aggregated shipping discounts as well.
Andrew Runnette (00:15:47) - , and then, you know, partnerships to help them scale their company. If you need help building your Shopify store, we have somebody that can help you, you know, if you need insurance, we can help you there. We've just built a bunch of partnerships that people get access to just through becoming a member of portal.
Sam Wilson (00:16:04) - Got it. And that's and why did you guys select the the term member versus, you know, client or something else or you know, where did that name kind of or that idea of calling people members come from?
Andrew Runnette (00:16:17) - I think it builds community. It builds, you know, being a part of something. I mean, there's, you know, a lot of,, folks that meet each other within the warehouse., we just had a packaging company join us, and he's he's now supplying packaging., he started supplying packaging in one facility, and now he's expanding to others, and now he actually expanded to others. So he's in he's in two, maybe in three facilities here in the near future.
Andrew Runnette (00:16:43) - So, you know, that also helps him save on shipping to his customers outside of Porto as well, right?
Sam Wilson (00:16:50) - No, that's really, really cool. I love this model. This is really unique. And you guys are obviously you're aware that you're filling a gap in the market that's probably existed for a long time. What are some challenges, I guess, that you guys see in scaling this? And then how do maybe you intend on overcoming those?
Alex Morrison (00:17:08) - Yeah, I'd say one of the one of the biggest challenges in any real estate operating business has this challenges like, is growing efficiently, smartly and and quickly enough to to grow., so, you know, we see demand for this all across the country., you know, some markets are hard to break into. The coastal markets are very expensive on an industrial industrial basis. Our base rent is a function of the base rent of the real estate. So, you know, there's just some some markets are cost prohibitive. And we're getting creative on deal structure to solve that.
Alex Morrison (00:17:39) - So I'd say I'd say our limiting factor is just is just real estate. And which is a good problem to have because if we're having that issue, we know that the companies that we're servicing are also having that issue., but, you know, at this point, we're just we've really built out a really strong set of infrastructure. We spent most of last year building out our operations,, from top to bottom. And we think this year will be a big year for us on growth. So,, but, you know, the more, the more deal flow we get, the faster we we can we can grow the company. And it's just a matter of finding the right deals in a creative way.
Sam Wilson (00:18:13) - Right. Very, very cool. Andrew, you have any thoughts on that?
Andrew Runnette (00:18:17) - Yes. I mean, I think the challenge is, you know, come just in logistics, but, you know, that's what we're solving for. So it's I don't I think the way we've built out our infrastructure and all of our systems over the last year just, you know, really set us up for scale.
Sam Wilson (00:18:36) - I got a question really, I touched on this a little bit earlier, but it was really about how you how you underwrite a deal, like when you look at an opportunity like what makes it. Yeah, this is going to be a great place to put a co warehousing space or I guess, again, I'm probably using the wrong word there. But how do you do that? I mean, that's that's kind of yeah. Just loving the answer to that if you can.
Alex Morrison (00:18:59) - Yeah. We spent a significant amount of time underwriting markets doing our diligence., you know, generally before we open a facility will have a list of about 200 companies that have signed up for the product that are waiting for us to open so that we know that the demand is there and we do. We've built out a really powerful demand generating system that's proprietary that,, helps us basically determine the demand levels. So, you know, we'll run ads across the internet, across different platforms to, to kind of market something that's coming soon and then hear from the actual customer.
Alex Morrison (00:19:32) - , we want to make sure the demand is there. We're not picking the wrong pocket. And there's obviously better places in a city than others. Like everything in real estate. We want to make sure we're in the right space to make sure that, you know, the occupancy comes to us., but we're, you know, in terms of our, of our occupancy history, we're really excited because, you know, we filled up our our two first facilities to 100% occupancy and under an under ten months,, and, and that's that, you know, very, you know, premium market rents and honestly a wait list in these facilities. So the demand is there., it's just about being smart, about making the right kind of decision on where where to place the facility.
Sam Wilson (00:20:12) - Is there a type of building in particular that works? And one obviously, maybe that's a stupid question, because you just mentioned a building in Brooklyn with a seventh floor that you've converted into this. But I ask the question anyway, but a type of building that works for this and the type of building that just doesn't.
Alex Morrison (00:20:26) - Yeah. What we like, the criteria that we look for is, is generally like adequate. You know, we essentially we look for criteria like doctors, parking, location. Those are the three main kind of things that we look for. Clear height isn't as important to us. So we can kind of fit into these buildings that you wouldn't think have have a useful life in industrial anymore, because an Amazon wouldn't be able to work there. Our companies generally have no issue with that. So,, you know, honestly, most buildings, most buildings work. And what we really try to find is these class B and class C buildings that, you know, are relatively priced well,, in good pockets of town and gentrifying industrial neighborhood. We like to say we go to where the breweries are because once a brewery starts to pop up, you know, you know, these are industrial pockets that are turning over and our product would work well there.
Sam Wilson (00:21:15) - Got it. And I think that's probably the, the, and again, filling up an entire space and ten months that's, that's, that's impressive.
Sam Wilson (00:21:23) - But because you're getting premium rents like the the numbers make sense. I would imagine a lot sooner in the process than maybe it would be if it was just a standard industrial building. No.
Alex Morrison (00:21:34) - Yeah, it all comes down to the real estate cost. The base cost. You know, if we went and paid class A rent and it doesn't really provide value to our customers or, you know, class A pricing on a per foot basis,, we don't need to do that. I mean, it would work just as well, but if we can find value in A, in A, B, or C building in a good part of town that we know we can bring the rents to and bring the occupancy in, we'd rather do that than than pay up for a higher quality building.
Sam Wilson (00:22:03) - Got it. Understood. So can somebody approach you today if I called you to say, hey, Alex and Andrew, I've got a building that I think would be a great fit for this, I own it.
Sam Wilson (00:22:12) - Am I an ideal client for you?
Alex Morrison (00:22:15) - Absolutely. And, you know, we're looking at opportunities all across the country. I'd say to like an ownership to the audience out there that has a building, you know, we're generating the ownership like 25 to 35%, no premiums on the real estate that on a per a market basis. So it's compelling from, from a, from market rent perspective. And we're also, you know, bringing breathing life into some properties that maybe have stagnated. So absolutely, we are looking at management deals across the country in our in our open open awesome.
Sam Wilson (00:22:48) - Know that's and if you're listening to this you know Alex just said it. You know if you've got a building that kind of fits this profile reach out to these guys. And of course their information will be included here in the show notes at the end of it., and just find out if this is a good fit. Is there a particular size, like what's a minimum size that you would need in order to turn a building into? Yeah, you guys are doing great.
Alex Morrison (00:23:07) - Great question Sam. We generally look for 40,000ft² and above. So 40 to 80,000ft². Size range is what we find works best from an economies of scale perspective. Now we could we could flex down. We can flex up. But generally 40,000 is our starting point.
Sam Wilson (00:23:23) - Got it. Okay. 40,000ft² or bigger. This has been fantastic. Alex and Andrea, thank you for taking the time to come on today. And really, I mean, I haven't I don't know whether we had 900 episodes or something on this show at this point, and we haven't had anybody talk about what you guys are doing right now. So obviously you're aware that you're on to something unique. And obviously filling a building in under ten months proves that that is also true. So certainly appreciate your guys's time today. Any last thoughts on your business, on the model or anything else you guys want to share here before we sign off?
Alex Morrison (00:23:55) - You know. Thanks for having us, Sam. If you're ever out in Phoenix, Sol, la, Brooklyn, or maybe more markets come by, check the space out and you'll you'll find it really cool.
Sam Wilson (00:24:05) - Fantastic.
Alex Morrison (00:24:06) - Appreciate you having us on.
Sam Wilson (00:24:07) - Absolutely. No. The pleasure was mine. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you. What is the best way to do that?
Alex Morrison (00:24:15) - Yeah. My email to alex@join-portal.com Andrew's Andrew at join dash. Com or you can go to our website join-portal.com and and reach out to us there.
Sam Wilson (00:24:25) - Fantastic. We'll make sure we include that there in the show. Notes. join-portal.com Alex and Andrew, thank you again for coming on the show today. Appreciate it.
Andrew Runnette (00:24:33) - Thanks. Thanks, Sam.
Sam Wilson (00:24:33) - Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a.
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